Seldo.Weblog: September 2006

Mandatory Parental Licensing

...no, I'm not advocating it. But it got your attention, right? Over on Thingbox we've been having a very long debate about how to tackle those problem children that Tony Blair is so worried about in an effort to distract attention away from his leaving office. So here's my position:

People are hard-wired to make babies, even if it’s not a very good idea.

People who are highly educated (regardless of financial status) tend to try and pick the best time to have kids, and so have fewer, but more successful children. People who are poorly educated show less planning, and have more kids, and those kids are less successful.

We as a society have taken the decision that we cannot let these poorly-planned kids starve to death (because their parents haven’t planned how to feed them) or kill themselves in any of a variety of ways. Instead, we want to try and help them succeed. That’s very noble of us.

One way to help these children succeed would be by helping them be planned children in the first place. This means giving their poorly-educated parents some incentive to think more carefully before having children. We’re already doing that, with mixed results.

Since poorly-educated people will nevertheless continue to have children by accident or through poor judgement, we must find ways to help the children themselves.

Another way to help them succeed is by giving them the same opportunities that better-planned children will get. Since these children are, on average, poorer, this tends to involve financial support, since most opportunities in this country are open to all comers, as long as they can pay.

Financial support is a good solution, and one we are already employing, though it remains to be seen how effective our implementation is.

These poorly-planned children are not, however, just missing out on opportunities. They are missing out on education that happens within the home. Levels of parental education are a good predictor of how educated children will be, even when controlling for financial status. So it’s important that their parents be educated, especially when it comes to teaching their kids.

A common response to this is "but there's no right way to teach children" or "you can't teach good parenting". On the contrary, there is a body of knowledge about parenting styles. And there is also research that shows what parenting style is most successful, where success is measured by the educational attainment of the children. At the very least, there are certainly a large number of easily-identified wrong ways to raise children.

This information about how to be a good important is important and valuable. So in addition to the other ways in which we help poorly-planned kids, we should also be teaching parents how to be good parents. This advice is not foolproof, and in certain living situations it’s not a great predictor of success, but it is better than nothing, which is all that can be said of the other two ways we’re trying to help these kids.

The question is not “is it possible to teach parenting?” or “is it a good idea to teach parenting?”, it’s “what is the best way to educate parents?”

And I don’t know the answer.

An Endodontist

04 September 2006
I am very impressed with your research on this topic (and you've used credible sources on top of that). Is it possible that the stress of the whole situation could have contributed to depression?

In retrospective studies it's difficult to discern a causal relationship rather than an association between things such as depression and the use of the drug...Often there is a common factor that brings the two things together (relates them) without these things having any other interaction (ie. your tooth problem had you using Flagyl, and possibly could have depressed you at the same time).

Metronidazole and the subjective nature of reality

Written Friday, 1st September, 2006

The last 5 days have been some of the worst days of my life.

It all started with that incompetent dentist I've been whining about. As I've already mentioned, I had have an emergency root canal on Sunday morning to relieve the pain from an abscess under one of my teeth. With the treatment, I gratefully accepted a 3-day course of antibiotics to cure the infection that caused the abscess.

Grumpy, in pain, and exhausted from the lack of sleep, I did nothing at all on Sunday. I felt particularly annoyed because it was supposed to be the first day of my vacation proper, and I had planned to spend the days off happily coding away on one or another of various personal projects. But now I felt in no fit state to do so.

Over the next couple days, my mood did not improve. I stayed indoors, off instant messenger, doing nothing and talking to no-one except my flatmate when he came in. I declined offers of friends and family. None of this was really unusual; I occasionally do this kind of thing.

But I felt unwell. Obviously I was physically unwell with the pain in my teeth, but I also felt generally unwell and, well, grumpy. Upset. I chided myself for overreacting to a little pain and inconvenience and expense. "I've got nothing really to complain about, and it's all my own fault anyway," I though to myself, "don't go whining to everybody about how your teeth are making you depressed, they'll just joke about it and tell you to get a sense of perspective. Just avoid people until you get better."

So that's what I did. Except I *didn't* get better. My tooth got slowly better, but too slowly. It was now Tuesday and I was still in pain. Reading the directions that came with the antibiotics, they specified a 3-day course for "dental infection" and a 7-day course for "acute dental infection". Well, if this wasn't acute, I didn't know what was. I'd had an abscess and been on antibiotics for them before, and that course had been 5 days. So as I had the pills anyway, I decided to lengthen the dose, as I know that an insufficient dose of antibiotics is worse than none.

And my mood got worse. I lay around watching old science fiction tv and reading comic books -- my comfort actions, as any friend of mine will tell you. I achieved none of my personal projects, I just sat there, dwelling on the pain and expense of my teeth, and feeling overwhelmed at the futility of doing anything. I couldn't face seeing anybody or doing anything. The thought of returning to work made me cringe. I just wanted to hide in a dark hole somewhere forever, and have nobody bother me.

All of this was a total overreaction, obviously, to what had actually happened. In retrospect, I recognize those sorts of feelings. The last time I had them was when I was 16, when I used to cry myself to sleep to the sound of radiohead, unhappy with my sexuality. Back then I did any number of stupid online tests all of which said I was clinically depressed. Every little thing seemed like the straw to break the camel's back. Every little setback loomed huge. It happens to every teenager, and like every teenager, I grew out of it. I should have questioned why I was feeling this way now, but it didn't occur to me.

Back from work one of those evenings, my flatmate idly mentioned that a colleague of his had been late for work because someone had thrown themselves under a train at Clapham Junction. We joked at the general "tut-tut" response this elicts from most Londoners, annoyed at the delay to their journeys. But it set me off: for the first time since I was sixteen, I thought about suicide.

I thought a lot about suicide when I was fifteen and sixteen. I had planned to commit suicide on my 16th birthday. The property where we lived featured a very high cliff-like retaining wall ending in concrete, and my school had a fourth-floor classroom with (in one of those features only a third-world school could get away with) an entirely open balcony with a low wall, also conveniently over a concrete basketball court. No shortage of methods presented themselves; it would be easy. I even dropped hints of the plan to friends. There was no point to my life, I thought at the time. All nature designed me to do is reproduce, and I wasn't going to do that, so why bother?

On the actual day of my birthday, in typical teenage fashion, I was too distracted by birthday presents to even remember that I'd planned to do something. Subsequently, I came up with a pretty neat justification for my lack of action.

First, note that a big reason for my depression was that my discovery of my sexuality had radically altered my perception of my place in the world. I suddenly went from being the golden child to (in my mind; I'd not told anyone yet) the family outcast, and from being a fine upstanding member of society to a pervert (internalized homophobia; isn't it wonderful?).

So what I told myself was: okay, I did commit suicide. I'm dead now. Therefore, the yardstick to measure anything that happens after this time is not relative to the theoretical rich whiteboy I'd thought I was, but to zero. Relative to no life at all, any sort of life at all wasn't just acceptable, it was great. So it didn't matter how bad things got: they were still better than they'd been on my 16th birthday, when I died.

The same dark thoughts were still buzzing around in my head on Friday morning as I packed to go on vacation with the family, to Bilbao. Everything was incredibly frustrating to me now. I'd got the flight date wrong -- I was coming back Sunday, not Monday. I couldn't find my clothes. My tooth still hurt. I didn't have a bag the right size. I was broke from paying for the dentist. All these petty little things that ordinarily I would brush aside without a second thought seemed huge, unbearable. I considered cancelling, backing out of the vacation entirely. The only thing that stopped me was I couldn't think of a good reason to do so -- my tooth? Feeling anti-social? Pretty silly reasons to waste a couple hundred quid on cancelled flights and reservations. It would just be ridiculous.

As I walked down Clapham High Road to the tube, for the first time I thought: why am I so unhappy? Is it really just the dentistry? The money? Frustration at not having achieved anything in my week off? Was I not over my ex, who I'd unexpectedly bumped into a few weeks before? But that had seemed to go so well at the time, and was in any case weeks ago. What was making me unhappy now? I couldn't think of anything. It just seemed, even to me, that I was totally overreacting to minor setbacks. I continued to toy with backing out -- it was only a short trip, after all. I crossed the little triangular park outside Stockwell station and waited at the lights to cross.

The junction outside Stockwell tube always has heavy traffic, and is a major bus route, so the lights are quite a wait if you miss them. The first stream of traffic passed from the east, and I watched idly, thinking only how unable to face a vacation I felt. The ridiculousness of being "unable to face" a vacation didn't occur to me.

The lights changed, and there was that five second lull you get as the north-bound traffic accelerated away from the lights. I could see a double-decker in the queue. And the thought crossed my mind: by the time it passes here, it'll be going fast enough. It only take six steps to be out in front of it, and it'll all be over.

I closed my eyes, held my breath, and waited until I felt the rush of air as the bus went past.

At the airport, I mentioned to my mother how upset I'd been feeling. She suggested that perhaps my antibiotics were to blame.

What? How can a substance built to kill bacteria make you unhappy? But I pulled out my phone, and googled for something along the lines of "antibiotics that cause depression" (I can't remember the exact term now) and found a list of drugs suspected to cause depression. And there at the bottom of the list was metronidazole, what I'd been taking for the last five days.

So that's it? I nearly threw myself under a bus because I was taking some stupid orange pills? How fragile and subjective our grip on reality is.

I write this on Friday night. Tomorrow I may stop taking the pills. I'll write and tell you what happens.


Written Sunday, September 3rd.

Saturday things got steadily better -- I had a great morning and afternoon. Towards the evening I thought I could feel my tooth getting worse, so I chickened out and took the pills again, and my mood seemed reasonably unchanged, so I took another before bed (the stated dosage is 3 per day, so 2 should be okay). But this morning things seemed crap again, so I didn't take one this morning, and 15 hours after my last dose the world seems fine again.

It seems crazy to me now that I was thinking about suicide just two days ago. My life is great! What the hell was I complaining about? So that's why I wrote it down then, as I knew the memory would fade. But that seems to be the effect these drugs have on me. Metronidazole turns up repeatedly, along with other antibiotics on lists of drugs that cause depression, such as the antibiotics used to treat acne, which are being reviewed for public use because of the link to depression after even the manufacturers began to list depression as a possible side effect.

In the states metronidazole is sold as Flagyl, and depression is sometimes listed by the retailer as a side-effect, and sometimes not. The leaflet that came with my own dose certainly doesn't. But the link to metronidazole specifically turns up in at least two medical studies as well as (obviously anecdotal, but still not to be dismissed) voluntary reports by patients.

Of course, since my teeth were painful as well as infected, I was also taking nurofen. Ah, glorious nurofen. Everybody takes that. Except nurofen is ibuprofen, and also lists depression as a side effect. Now a little suspicious, I did some googling, but no, you can't just find crazy people on the Internet claiming everything causes depression -- neither aspirin nor piriton, which I've taken in the past for headaches and hayfever respectively, for example, show any such link.

This is me. I don't even drink alcohol because the whole concept of a substance altering my mental state is repulsive to me. To discover that I've been happily swallowing not one but two substances, at the same time, which had such a profound effect on my mental state is shocking to me. To have it laid so bare that our whole grasp of reality is so totally subjective is also deeply scary. To say nothing of annoying, since I've blown a week of vacation in a (prescription) drug-fueled haze of crushing depression.

So kids, what have we learned? Well, I think that "dentists don't ever know what the fuck they're doing" is probably a good one. "Don't exceed the stated dose" might also feature, except I was following the directions, they just failed to mention all the side-effects. The best one is probably "deeply question your mental state before doing anything significant", I think. But I'm back to normal now, so you don't have to worry about me holding up the traffic anytime soon.

marc

03 September 2006
I've got an appointment with the dentist in a couple weeks to fix a broken tooth myself. I've got to say that, after reading your dental saga, particularly this latest installment, I'm scared shitless.

ed

03 September 2006
Christ! Well, I'm glad you held your breath - I've already had enough tragedy for one week.

Chez

03 September 2006
I was on Metronidazole for a full week (SIX pills a day, along with another six of a different antibiotic, for a skin abcess) about a month ago.

As it happens, I felt pretty crap and I remember making some "I can't keep this up/can't cope" type decisions which I've now rethought because, er, well, it was crap.

Bob

06 September 2006
I read this with increasing concern!
Do you think you could sue or something?? I'm not a fan of litigation culture -- but what if the next guy does throw himself under a bus?

Art

11 September 2006
why would you sue? Read the leaflet that comes with the drug... y'know, some of us have known and been welcoming the fact that odd little pills can alter our conciousness slightly for years now. It's ok so long as you don't start thinking about how little they know about why things do this...

Linda Stevens

19 August 2007
Hello here is another great resource about flagyl drug Flagyl

Linda Stevens

19 August 2007
Why I can't show the link? here is the url http://www.inetdrugsource.com/flagyl.html

Andrea

31 January 2008
I've been taking metronidazole for a week and am having terrible anxiety attacks and have been suicidal not in the sense of planning anything but rather the illogical, biological sense (e.g. I end up saying, "I don't want to be alive," without planning to say it).

I've had depression in the past, although I've been fine for a while. Does that make me more prone to having depression from this stuff?

Laurie

31 January 2008
Andrea -- I'm no doctor, so I have no idea! But if you suspect metronidazole is responsible I suggest you talk to your doctor and try a different antibiotic.

lynda

24 June 2008
I have just had a tooth extracted that got infected and was put on amoxyl and metronizadole by the dentist, I made an appointment to see the doctor today as I have been feeling suicidal and can't stop crying. I am relieved to read this article as I thought I was going mad.

ELBSeattle

19 September 2008
Hey everyone,
I was taking erythromycin for acne about a month ago when I found myself in a deep, dark depression. 'This feels familiar' I thought, remembering other times I'd been on erythromycin and felt similar dark, suicidal, oppressive depression. I had even asked a doctor and pharmacist about a possible link between the two but both pooh-poohed the idea. This time, armed with Google, I did some searching of my own. And yes, depression is listed in several sources (including clinical trials) as being a possible side effect to taking erythromycin. I went to a dermatologist to see if there was a different thing I could take for my face. (Who wants to be acne-ridden? I don't) He prescribed metronidazole. I came home, looked it up on the internet and: whoosh. I'm seeing just as many, if not MORE, links between this stuff and depression. And I'm thinking: holy crap! Shouldn't doctors know about this? Especially a doctor I just went to and said, 'Look, erythromycin causes depression. Is there something I can take that doesn't?'
I know there are a lot of sites where people complain about odd side effects. But depression and its link to various antibiotics is something I've seen so frequently now I can't dismiss it as merely anecdotal. Especially since I've seen more than a few actual clinical studies that came to this conclusion.
The acne may make me feel self-conscious, but it doesn't make me want to buy a gun and blow my head off. I think I'll stick with the acne.

Greg

18 December 2008
I was glad to find your site and this one that collects the opinions of patients concerning various medicines. http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=20868&name=FLAGYL%20ER

I was put on Flagyl and Ciprol for 10 days. I started having serious suicidal thoughts after the second day, panic attacks, spontaneous crying, lethargy, etc. I thought I was losing my mind and then did some research. Knowing that it is the medicine made it only slightly easier. Somehow I've made it through the 10 days and am waiting for the cloud to lift. I am sure it will be affecting me on some level for at least another 48 hours.

Fabian

19 December 2008
Gosh thanks.

I have been wandering around thinking of how heavy life could be and how i could come to an end!

I am taking 750 mg 3 times a day metronidazole for giardiasis. I stop it now. And will have to find another solution but that mood killing drug!

Angela Wagstaff

07 January 2009
I have just read this thread .... and promptly burst into tears with relief!!!

I have a tooth infection at the moment .... (yes - own fault, dentist phobic etc etc) ... but I went for emergency treatment and the dentist was great and said I would feel better in 24 hours if I took the antibiotic metronidazol. I have also been taking nurofen+ to ease any pain .. though mostly the pain is completely gone through the day.

What I couldn't understand was how negative, lethargic, miserable and unsociable I was feeling. I havent been able to face going back to work and have slept on and off or just been messing around on the PC. I have avoided doing anything constructive and the general feeling of malaise and hopefulness has culminated in feelings of suicide!

I have tried my normal "giving myself a prep talk" type thing ... but continue to sit in the dark on my PC. I avoided going to the supermarket until late in the evening on the night when my kids are at their father's (I am divorced) when normally I would be looking to go out and enjoy myself.

I HAVE to go back to work tomorrow and I am dreading it. I don't finish the antibiotics for another 3 days .. so have to accept that I might have to endure this darkness but at least this thread has given me some light at the end of the tunnel and I just need to get to next week!

Appreciate all your comments and thank God I am not going insane! I am gonna put some makeup on and go and pick my children up from the childminders and take my mind off stuff. Take care all. (I won't be taking any more Nurofen either!)

Nicole

05 February 2009
I just read all your comments and am relieved.

I have been taking metronidazole for giardiasis and have been feeling very out of the ordinary since. very teary, down, overwhelmed, feeling like i can't go on, life has no sense etc.

i have suffered from chronic fatigue so i know how it feels to be tired and overwhelmed a lot of the time, but i've never been this bad.

can anyone tell me, do you have other side effects, such as fatigue, nausea?

i am so over chemical drugs! never ever again!

Norm

05 March 2009
My God! What an eye opener! I thought I was going mad! I am not normally a depressive type of person but have been in a very dark mood for days. I haven't been sleeping, I have withdrawn into myself. How can a anti-biotic make you feel so crap? I have been taking them for a week and was due to take them for another week after a Sinus Lift operation. My dentist has said I can stop taking them now. I feel sick, lethargic, uncommunicative, snappy and generally not myself. Thanks for taking the time to post this. I feel better already just knowing it wasn't me. Looking forward to feeling better in myself now. And looking forward to a good nights sleep.

maho pascale

09 March 2009
merci......moi aussi je croyais que je devenais folle; depuis que je prenais de la métronidazole, je faisais de grosses crises d'angoisse.....j'arrète

J

26 March 2009
Good to see it is really the meds and not me. I went on metronidazole and like a day later I was angry for no reason and snapping at everyone and feeling nauseous and headachy. then I went to work and snapped on my boss and walked off the job (something I have never ever done in my entire life and very uncharacteristic of me.) I almost lost my job. I finished yesterday, but today I am depressed and just feel like crying for no reason at all.

lil

08 May 2009
I know this is an old post, but I'll just add my two cents worth. I was also prescribed metronidazole for 7 days for a dental infection. They were 7 really, really bad days. Depressed, lethargic, tearful and just generally feel awful all the time. Halfway through the course, I KNEW it was the antibiotics but I had trouble finding any "official" material to back up my suspicions, only patient feedback online.
Soon, I'm likely to be faced with a similar situation, and I think my dentist and I are going to have a little argument, because I don't think I can go through that again.

Jojo

18 August 2009
Oh my god such an evil antibiotic is metronidazole.I took it and got so depressed I was crying everyday, i had no control.I lost like a stone, as the depression was so bad i didn't want to eat.My boyfriend came home early from work he was so worried and did not want to leave me on my own in case i did something stupid.Zithromax is another bad one, caused me bad anxiety.Sounds like im a complete fruit cake but my personality was completely changed on these tablets.

tamara

23 January 2010
i sit here crying with sympathy and relief and anger in the middle of the goddamned night from reading these posts. i've been taking the drug for four days and--here's the kicker--because i am prone to mania as well as depression (and thus can't take zoloft or wellbutrin or prozac because mania turns them on their heads and they then have suicidal implications), i think the flagyl is making me wildly manic. this sounds good in theory: delusions of grandeur, feeling like you are brilliant, having a great idea every five minutes, etc., but it is exhausting. plus it makes for insomnia, thus the 2:00 a.m. post. i have had a shitty week sleeping too. add to that the burning eyes, VILE taste in my mouth, dyspepsia, fatigue, and aching legs and hips. i'm a train wreck. on top of that, it's exam week at the high school where i teach, i have about 800 pages of them to correct, and i have no energy or motivation for it. i'm swearing like a sailor, nice French teacher that i usually am--putain de merde!--and nothing my very sweet boyfriend tries to do helps: massage, making me drink peppermint tea, taking walks to exhaust the manic urge.

here's the other kicker: i read on another site that if you've taken it before (as i have, for giardia a few years ago), you're likely to have a resistance to it. so as i sit here typing this i'm terrified that i'll go through all this shit for nothing, and have to start over with another evil drug. the person who said no more chemical meds, i agree. if i can get better from this, it's naturopathy and acupuncture from here on out.

all you people who are feeling suicidal, i am so sorry. and to my doctor, you lame son of a bitch, why on earth didn't you warn me? all he said was that i couldn't drink (and i would kill for a drink right now) and that i'd have a bad taste in my mouth.

keep the faith, folks. i'm trying.

sonia

31 August 2011
Wow...that sound soooooo similar.
I've been prescribed metronidazole for pelvic inflammatory disease. they prescribe that and another antibiotic as PID is hard to diagnose so they fill you full of antibiotics to kill any possible infection you may have in the reproductive system.
I was on them for 2 weeks, got kind of better, then it came back so they put me back on them, which didn't work. And what do they do, try and put me back on them. so through tears i begged them not to as they dont work ,and turn me into an emotional wreck, unable to cope with anything...oh...AND THEY DON'T WORK SO WHY PUT ME BACK ON THEM!!"!! So I am on a different antibiotc and refused to take metronidazole. I feel so much better mentally having not taken it for 2 days now. How can someone be expected to get better, when the mind is so weak and negative. I'm usually a very active positive person who doesn't let things get her down, but I've been feeling like a different person for the past few weeks.
i will never ever take it again, and I would advise others not to if poss. And they really should state it as a side effect on the leaflet.

treze

06 September 2011
Am on metronidazole for dental and soft tissue infection.this and co amoxiclav and amoxicillin.i am beside myself.i dont know if its the trauma of swelling up like elephant man or the dreadful pain i was in ending up in a and e and the emergency.dentist twice.tjese pills make.me have a personality change of epic proportions.i am so frightened of a recurrance of the infection that i keep taking themi have to have the tooth out on mon which is just freaking me out.doncha just love dental problems.:'(

tasha

31 December 2011
I have 5 days left of metronidazol these last 9 days have been Hell! It started out with flu like symptoms then stiff neck and achey legs but the depression and mood swings were the worse! I started this right before Christmas and made me an awful person. I've never acted to mean and sad for mo reason! It has progressively gotten worse! It's new years eve and I can't even be around my friends its the most opposite you can get from my typical personality! I just hope this crap works even so o don't know if the side effects were worth it!

Claudia

22 January 2012
May all crappy dentists burn in hell for eternity with abscessed impacted molars!!! First, the metronidazole was NOT working, after ten days and two trips to ER for pain shots in my jaw, second this douche bag of a so called Dr. literally Wasn't hearing me. I said different antibiotics he answered I can't give you pain meds. WTF?? Then I slid from depressed to suicidal. I had to return in one of the two hour pain- free windows purchased dearly from the ER, bully a nurse into bullying said idiot sadist-I mean "dentist" into a scrip for a different antibiotic. I guess she must have known the secret because Thank God I got a scrip for Vicodin as well...even so it was two more days before my head wasn't exploding. The only reason I didn't swallow the whole bottle was that I promised myself when I was well enough to kill myself I was going to take that waste-of-sperm dentist with me. When I returned to something resembling a human again I settled for filing a formal complaint, copying to Assbite, DDS, Facebooking my story - surprise, I was not the only victim, and....what was I talking about? Oh yeah, metronidazole. Depression. Yep.

Judy

24 January 2012
These comments have been very helpful to me. I am SO GLAD that I only have 2 more days to take Metronidazole. I became very sick after my dentist prescribed a different antibiotic that killed not just the "bad" bacteria in my system but also the "good" bacteria. I became so weak that I went to the hospital where they gave me 2 IVs for dehydration, Potassium, and multiple tests including both blood and Cat Scan. They concluded that the Antibiotic was the cause of my illness but the only way for me to recover was to take a different antibiotic - Metronidazole - to kill the "bad" bacteria and allow the "good" bacteria to come back. Physically I AM recovering but my mental state is terrible. At least I will probably come out of this terrible DEPRESSION when I have finished taking the Metronidazole. Knowing that others have had the same side effects helps me to "see the light at the end of the tunnel".

messi#1

25 January 2012
Hi I have had the same feelings of depression and anxiety as talked about while on this drug for four days after gum swelling. I'm now off it a week tmrw could any of you tell me how long these emotional side effects take to clear? Any response greatly appreciated.

whippersnapper

26 March 2012
wow...I read the above and at least I know now I am not losing it. I am pretty resilient when it comes to ingesting drugs but these things have messed me up properly. Depressed, lethargic and can't make a sensible decision, even crossing the road seems to get me in trouble. Finished only a 5 day run of these things for a gum infection, took the last one on saturday and still feeling like crap on monday.

linda logan

06 May 2012
I´m female and in my mid-fifties, and my current financial situation and lack of future security does absolutely nothing to help my outlook on life, but OMG - I´ve been taking 2x250mg doses of Flagyl for the past five days for an infected tooth - and I feel like walking into the sea ! A few days before I started taking it, I was trying to think of ideas to start a new business, but suddenly, I feel so pessimistic about everything - and not only is my husband getting on my nerves even more than usual, but so is my cat - and that´s serious !!

Lex

07 May 2012
I'm halfway through a 2 week course of Metronidazole and Ofloxacin (each dose 400mg/2 a day), for an unidentified anaerobic infection causing Pelvic Inflammatory Disease.

I had a this same infection last November and the doctor prescribed the Metronidazole (400mg/3 times a day) and Doxycycline (100mg once a day). During this 2 week course, I felt increasingly depressed, suicidal and could barely get out of bed. I didn't realise it was linked to the antibiotics until it occured to me there might be a link near the end of the course. I stopped taking them when I found out.

When I was diagnosed again last week I explained to my doctor the massive impact the Metronidazole had on my mental health. I figured it was the Metronidazole as I hadn't seen the same amount of information linking Doxycycline to depression or suicidal thoughts.

My doctor said that Metronidazole was the only thing that he was sure would get rid of the infection. I was scared so i took it.

I've now seen evidence that Ofloxacin is probably even worse than Metronidazole for it's Psychological adverse reactions, so why has my doctor prescribed him this as well as the Metronidazole, instead of the previous Doxycyline? Is he trying to finish me off? I'm going to see him in the morning about this.

Anyway, this time around I am feeling borderline psychotic. I nearly attacked a woman on the bus for making smug comments about putting my heavy bags on the seat next to me. I would normally brush it off, but I was screaming all sorts of obscenities in her face and was this close to smashing her face in, seriously. I remembered I would lose my job if I hit her, and that's THE ONLY THING that stopped me probably almost killing her. Not like me at all.

I have also been having arguments with my boyfriend which have escalated to me calling the police and getting him arrested. Oh my lord. I don't feel so suicidal this time around but I feel mega mega ANGRY.

I am now laying low and keeping out of people's way and just trying not to make any decisions about anything right now. I still have a bit of pain from the PID and I'm scared of becoming infertile so I HAVE to get rid of this infection ASAP, that's why I haven't come off the antibiotics, they are working in that respect.

I'll see what my doctor says tomorrow.

Li

17 May 2012
It's given me a urine infection after taking 3 pills and down feelings . After 3 ! This stuff isn't safe , been taking ibuprofen and paracetamol too . X

Rojo

30 May 2012
I went to dentist for check up 3 weeks ago and she decided i needed to have a tooth out, went back the next week and the tooth broke off while she was pulling, she decided i had infection and prescribed amoxycillion for 5 days , went back but antibiotic hadn't worked so she prescribed metronizadole as well as the other one, been back today still the same so now got a go to hospital to be sedated. I also take venlafaxine for depression. Been in agony for 3 weeks taking Paracetamol and Ibuprofen every 3-4 hours, not good on the stomach. Had no problem when i first went to the Dentist , been in agony ever since. Don't know why the antibiotics never worked. Shuld i sue?

Rojo

30 May 2012
I went to dentist for check up 3 weeks ago and she decided i needed to have a tooth out, went back the next week and the tooth broke off while she was pulling, she decided i had infection and prescribed amoxycillion for 5 days , went back but antibiotic hadn't worked so she prescribed metronizadole as well as the other one, been back today still the same so now got a go to hospital to be sedated. I also take venlafaxine for depression. Been in agony for 3 weeks taking Paracetamol and Ibuprofen every 3-4 hours, not good on the stomach. Had no problem when i first went to the Dentist , been in agony ever since. Don't know why the antibiotics never worked. Shuld i sue?

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02 June 2012
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Stardust79

05 July 2012
I just googled Metronidazole and depression because I feel like hell right now. I do suffer from depression but this week since being prescribed metronidazole it has gone through the roof. Sitting here today, ignoring my facebook which I never do, being paranoid and anxious. It is amazing how an anti biotic can make you feel so low. I was only prescribed it for a womans problem which I don't even think I needed. Pared with doxicycline which I finished today I feel so sick and depressed. I can't wait until 2 days when I finish the course of these damn things. Thanks for your post

sarah

15 July 2012
I am taking these for a pelvic infection. Im so emotional its unreal i nearly chucked myself of my balcony earlier :(

Lisa

28 July 2012
Oh wow. I enjoyed reading your story!! This happened to me this week. I was on this drug for seven days, and the last three days I've felt terrible. I couldn't sleep, was crying, and depression hit. I ended the drug Friday night and feel better knowing why but still not back to me. Hopefully, i'll feel right again by tomorrow or this week. I'd never taken flagyl before and never want to see it again! I thought I was losing it.

Michelle

01 September 2012
Wow. I have only once before in my life had a bout of depression as severe as this... so relieved to know the cause of my depression. I was prescribed Metronidazole for BV, 7 day treatment, 2 500mg pills a day... and it has been hell. I am a positive, happy, cheerful person almost 100% of the time, but I am in the worst state now... Anxiety attacks... spontaneous crying without reason/motive...my boyfriend is supportive of me through it all, but I just am not myself at all. What I'd like to know is why the hell did the prescribing nurse list depression as one of the major side effects? All she mentioned to me was to avoid alcohol as taking it while on this course of treatment would land me in the hospital. I HATE THIS DRUG, and it confirms my suspicions in Western medicine and the prescription drug world... Evil evil evil... I mean suicidal thoughts?! NEVER before in my life. This is the worst... I'm halfway thru my treatment, but a small voice in the back of my head is thinking: Is it even worth it to continue taking these pills? My mind and body CLEARLY do not like this drug... I love how they say: "The benefits of taking Metronidazole far outweigh the risks." Bastards. There is light at the end of the tunnel, but it's just dark and dreary now... the only comfort to me besides my bf is taking St. John's Wort...

Microsoft Word Training

14 September 2012
Thanks for this site..it really helped me a lot and will let me learn a lot

And now, for something completely different

We take a break from tales of suicide and woe to bring you the cutest couple in the universe. Seriously. These kids together are better than a roomful of baby pandas. Pandas holding kittens. And the kittens are wearing hats.

P.S.: Are we looking at a Maggie 2.0 here? My politico friends keep saying there's no chance he's leaving before the party conference but frankly I'm wondering if he'll make it to the end of the month.

Carly

09 September 2006
Your taste continues to *mystify* me!

Suri Cruise

The baby photo seen around the world:

Suri Cruise

This is an amazing photo. You can see why they picked it for the cover. In a single image it captures the entire story: Cruise, the proud father, crows over his latest acquisition while wrapping it protectively to his chest. The baby is almost obscured by the leather jacket Tom is wearing as a symbol of his masculinity, thus unintentionally emphasizing the baby's own status as a the same kind of symbol. Mother Katie, on the other hand, though obviously loving, has already been obviously literally and emotionally sidelined -- she has to crane her neck just to fit into the frame and Tom pays her no attention at all. This photo, and this marriage, are all about Tom, Tom, Tom, and that's exactly the way he wants it to be.

This photo is an absolute masterpiece.

ed

06 September 2006
DON'T ENCOURAGE THEM!

matt

07 September 2006
Dude, you should, like, totally have done sociology. That's the kind of shit we spent three years doing. Especially the "wearing a symbol of his masculinity" part.

From this point on, I shall refer to Suri as Son of Top Gun.

Laurie

07 September 2006
@Matt - Oh, I love this kind of stuff. I just don't want to do it as a career :-)

Matt

08 September 2006
Sadly, I do. Even more sadlier (erm) I'm not allowed to. Apparently there's not much call for people to just sit around making up subtexts for things that don't need them...

Ade B

13 September 2006
Alternatively, its just a parody of the Paul Macartney photo with his daughter mary, taken by linda.

You takes your choice.

Two related thoughts, part 1: DVDs and airline security

Case A:

It's the late 90s. The DVD industry, worried about the security of their copyrights, creates a method of encrypting the movies on DVDs. Called CSS, this is supposed to prevent people copying DVDs. However, the industry still needs people to be able to play the DVDs in their legitimate players and on their DVD-equipped computers. Therefore, they have to give these very same people whom they don't trust not to violate copyrights the tools to unencrypt their encrypted copyrighted works.

Naturally, in reasonably short order, somebody reverse-engineers these tools and works out how to send the movies anywhere -- like another DVD, or their hard drive -- not just to the screen. Called DeCSS, this effectively ends any hope the industry has of technically restricting copyright violation, although they do briefly attempt legal restrictions, chiefly by making it illegal to use the software (or even link to it).

However, it is soon pointed out that the software is based on ideas so simple they can be expressed in any number of ways: a diagram, a movie, even an epic Haiku poem.

The DeCSS fiasco is rightfully viewed as one of the more outstanding moments in the recording and movie industry's long history of technological cluelessness.

Case B:

It's 2006. The airline industry, worried about airline security, creates a systems of checks and controls to prevent people with dangerous items boarding planes. However, they still want ordinary customers to be able to board planes without inconvenience. Therefore, they give these same possibly potentially terrorist passengers a list of rules about what items can and cannot make it onboard a plane, so they don't accidentally pack things in the wrong bag and create delays.

This is fundamentally the same problem. You cannot attempt to bar certain items from the plane if people are aware of the rules you use to determine what goes on board, the system you use to detect the items, and the methods you use to search. Therefore, it is only a matter of time before somebody works out a way of creating an explosive or other dangerous device that still fits within these rules.

It doesn't matter that we can't take suncream and toothpaste on board anymore. It makes us safer only for the couple of months it takes for some reasonably clever person somewhere to come up with a way of getting around the system.

Shoot experience

Anybody fancy doing a photographic treasure hunt of West London tomorrow? One place left on the team, first come first served with frankly unfair exceptions made for cute people.

The Shoot Experience

It was loads of fun. We wandered around new bits of London, had a nice pub lunch, played in the park, and took lots of photos, many involving a can of Baked Beans.

Birthday shenanigans

Roller Disco was every bit as fun as I remembered. Woohoo! I think I'm going to use some of my birthday money to buy a pair of proper roller skates -- one thing our neighbourhood does have is an awful lot of concrete, and it's probably good exercise or something, even if it is unspeakably gay.

Oh! And I got ID'ed. For age 18. At my 25th birthday party. I think that's the best present a boy could ask for.

Oops

I seem to have accidentally acquired a non-geeking, non-dancing hobby. It's even outdoors! I've never had one of them before.

P.S. Your joke for the day (mainly for M):
Q: Why do socialists all drink herbal teas?
A: Because all proper tea is theft.

M

17 September 2006
Hehe :)

Robert

17 September 2006
Anient Joke Alert! (but it is a good one)

Sacrospinnicus

I will give £10 to the first person who successfully works out what I saw on the Internet that eventually worked its way out of my subconscious as this word.

I may give hints later. Each hint will drop the prize by £1.

Robert

20 September 2006

It's not from here is it?

http://www.thingbox.com/members/profile/1729

Bob

20 September 2006
Well "sacro" implies maybe something to do with "the sacred.

And "spin" may imply a devious or rhetorical angle taken to some affair or another.

So I'm guessing it's one of the twisted Vatican "apologies" for the Pope's university speech -- i.e. they have "spun" what he said to make it sound like he wasn't insinuating that Muslims are all evil, which he clearly was.

Laurie

21 September 2006
Awesome guesses, but no cigar.

Hint #1: it needs to be split into two words, as Bob has already worked out. So...

Hint #2: it refers to something seasonal